Has anyone used Macchiato Monsters with Luka Rejec 's Ultraviolet Grasslands? Any thoughts on how that might be a good or a bad thing?
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At face value, it seems perfect for that campaign/adventure/pointcrawl, because the customization of characters would allow for characters to mesh well with the very weird heavy metal Moebius meets Mad Max qualities of UVG. But I am very new to OSR style games and worry I might be missing an obvious problem or two.
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hey Côme Martin is doing exactly this !
ReplyDeleteI think one issue is that the management of ressources in MM is approximative (risk dices) while UVG seems to rely heavily on the hardships of going into adventure. MM isn't made so that you can precisely count how many bags of food your character can buy, use, etc.
But, y'know, OSR is still OSR. I'd suggest not putting so much stress on the ordeal that travelling is, and thinking carefully the rules for travelling (HP regeneration per day, the use of ressources, etc.)
Ultraviolet Gaslands sounds like the best thing ever!
ReplyDeleteFelix B is perfectly right: the odd thing about a MM/UVG mix is that UVG abstracts some stuff that MM is precise about (the type of food PC eat, what you do each day of travelling...) and MM is laid-back about stuff that UVG is harsh about (encumbrance, HP recovery).
ReplyDeleteBut it works, mostly, when you put more emphasis on exploration and discovery than on survival, without entirely forgetting the latter. Heck, the PCs will get beaten up quite enough by the encounters they meet, no need to make it even harder on them, especially if you want them to travel far and wide!
Thanks for the replies so far. Come, your first hand experience is particularly welcome. If you have any "converstion notes" or similar you would be willing to share, I'd love to see them.
ReplyDeleteI didn't do much, in fact:
ReplyDelete- Converted the "survival sack rules" into a risk die with Felix's help: a Δ4 stock is enough for the whole party to survive for a week but has to be carried by 4 persons, a Δ6 for 2 weeks but 6 people must carry it, etc.;
- I handle encumbrance very vaguely, by rule of thumb rather than by precise number of items/sacks;
- The rest is pretty much the same, except for cash, XP and armor class, of course.
Oh, and I should mention I'm quite new to OSR games myself, so maybe I'm doing things horribly wrong, but people seem to have fun, so...
ReplyDeleteWhen I get to play I'll give you an Official OSR Compatibility Quotient Estimation.
ReplyDeleteActually, I initially wrote supplies using usage dice, but it got very difficult to calculate how much space you need to carry them, so I reduced the amounts. If you treat each sack of supplies as ∆4 supplies, you'll be fine. Your heroes will get a bit further without eating their horses (or murdering their fiancé—something one of my PCs did).
ReplyDeleteI think I have a full calculation of supplies and space for both Black Hack and Macchiato Monsters.
Oh, yes, found it. I would just round down the number of (average total uses) to equal the amount of space the equipment takes.
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Good grief, ask a question and you get ALL the experts pitching in! This is a great place!
ReplyDeleteThanks for the replies.
Hans Messersmith well, tagging me by name actually alerted me to this community. I love Macchiato Monsters to bits, but it doesn't fit perfectly with the kind of game I like to play.
ReplyDeleteWith Brian Ashford we've been tossing ideas back and forth for a project currently under the name of Snëër that fits with my games much better.
Particularly including ideas for colourful character deaths leading to weirder, more powerful PCs down the line.
Luka Rejec You've said too much now... Can we expect a playtest in Edinburgh? =P
ReplyDeleteEric Nieudan a playtest of Snëër? Yeah, I think I could put together a cut-down version for playtest by then.
ReplyDeleteLuka Rejec That'd be cool! Hey have we set dates for the meetup yet?
ReplyDeleteEric Nieudan we haven't set precise ones yet. I have to sit down and buy my Amsterdam-Edinburgh-and-back-again tickets.
ReplyDeleteLuka Rejec No worries. Let us know when you do!
ReplyDeleteCôme Martin and/or others, how does Macchiato Monsters level of deadliness jibe with UVG's "intended" level of deadliness. For example, 1st level MM characters would seem to me to be incredibly fragile (like any OSR 1st level characters, I guess) while UVG seems to have 6 or greater hit dice opponents essentially right from the start.
ReplyDeleteThis could be my lack of familiarity with OSR style play, I know that I should not expect "balance" in any fashion on these things (as in, say, D&D 5E's encounter creation rules). But the hit or be hit nature of MM combat strikes me that it ups the deadliness of early level fights.
Am I worrying too much? Are there steps I should take? For example:
* Make sure everyone starts with more than one character, and the first few sessions become a kind of funnel, Dungeon Crawl Classics style
* Start everyone at level 2
* Subtract a HD or two from every opponent.
If it were other games that I have run a lot (e.g. Dungeon World) I'd have an instinctive feel for this, but with OSR style games I just don't have any instincts.
In UVG per the encounter rules out-and-out hostile encounters are very rare.
ReplyDeletePlayers also have options to sacrifice animals and equipment to distract predators.
If they decide to go head-to-head against a high HD enemy tho ... heehee. It can be funny.
I would just warn them; don’t view this as a big trophy hunting adventure. (Tho it could be )
Hans Messersmith OSR games are not usually balanced. If you are wired that an encounter might be too much for your group, give them a warning, blood stains on the ground, an ominous roar, some obviously dodgy chat, whatever. Then if they get themselves killed it will be their fault, not yours. Be sure your players understand beforehand that some fights might be beyond their capabilities though.
ReplyDeleteWhat others said: UVG (and MM for that matters) is not a game where going head-on to combat is rewarded. In my experience, players feel/know this and will find means to avoid combat.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, the two fights I've framed so far were quite dangerous even if only against mechanical critters, but both were the result of players and PCs knowingly taking risks.
In my experience, MM characters don't die too often, for several reasons:
ReplyDelete- Astute players avoid combat or make sure to stack tactical advantages before they attack.
- Freeform magic can turn things around very quickly.
- The CON check when reaching zero HP gives you an extra chance to stay in the game.
I explicitly tell players: “this creature looks very big and scary. You think it might be able to rip you in half.”
ReplyDeleteAfter that, if they continue into battle ... yay!
Have been thinking of running this combo for a while now!
ReplyDelete