There are ongoing discussions in the Black Hack group about additional attacks for Fighters, whether they are interesting and/or balanced. I figured it might interest y'all.
My take on this was that additional attacks are a problem of choice more than a problem of balance: a high level black hack fighter can roll buckets of dice instead of playing smart and making meaningful decisions.
Originally shared by Chuck Barchuk
What is everyone doing as far as the Fighter's multiple attacks as they level? I read a few threads that stated it was overpowered. Also came across Dave's "Additional Things" where he mentioned changing it to every additional attack must be a new target with the same HD or lower. I haven't tried it yet but does this seem to correct the issue?
EDIT: By the way is there another alternative character sheet out there that's pretty good?
Also here: plus.google.com - Riddle me this : In TBHv1 fighters get one attack per level (per round). T...
ReplyDeleteI don't see a reason for a fighter in Macchiato to maximize their number of attacks, why wouldn't they?
ReplyDeleteMagic user or thieves are supposed to deal with things out of combat - granted, magic users will probably also do their things in fight.
If other roles are covered (magic damage, healing, stealth, whatever), your fighter have probably no better option than getting more and more attackjs (and become more and more boring).
Pierre M Oh, I think it's more a question of how fighters should get better at fighting: should it just be extra attacks? or should they have options such as maneuvers, helping allies, increasing their defense, etc. It makes things more complex, but it gives them more choices to make.
ReplyDeleteNicolas Francart What trait would you choose to have your fighter be more polyvalent? Would you accept some bard-like trait?
ReplyDeleteMM's extra attack rule is very balanced, because a fighter must sacrifice other things (give up a hit die or a stat increase) to get another attack. It probably won't be something a fighter does every level.
ReplyDeleteBrett Slocum I disagree. HD is a given for a fighter, and new trait on 4 7 10 will also be prefered, when your main stat is high enough, increasing it again is way less efficient (in combat) than getting a new attack.
ReplyDelete(I will make the calculation if you ask)
Well, they won't be taking an extra attack every level until their STR and DEX are in the 14-16 range, if it were me. So Level 5-7 is when you start taking extra attacks every level. I don't have a problem with this. YMMV
ReplyDeleteNicolas Francart I think additional attacks work in the grand scheme of things. As it's been said above, you have to choose between mêlée and distance, you have to take them instead of other advances, etc.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I find that characters with a potential to deal a lot of damage tend to take more risks. They charge a band of heavily armed orcs, they take on a dragon by themselves... Until they miss their check and lose a whole bunch of HP.
I would never in a million years make a more complex system for fighters to use in combat. I think it'd clash with the design philosophy of MM. But that's just me! You're welcome to do it for your own game (or for profit ;)
Have you looked at Whitehack? It has a list of about a dozen combat maneuvers that fighter types can select with levels.
Eric Nieudan Oh for sure, my intention was not to say "bonus attacks are WRONG, the rules must change!", but rather to spark a conversation for people who like to tinker with their OSR rules.
ReplyDeleteI took a very quick look at Whitehack but I should probably look at it closer then :)
Eric Nieudan - Eric, are you saying that you like Whitehack's maneuvers, but wouldn't use such for MM?
ReplyDeleteWilliam & Polly Shires Yes, I suppose. I like them as long as they don't add to my GMing workload :) I'd be okay with using them as a player.
ReplyDeleteI have now come up with a simple houserule, in case anyone is interested (people will recognize the influence of DCC):
ReplyDelete- Instead of bonus attacks, characters trained in combat have the option to get two Deed points when leveling up.
- In combat, you can expend a Deed point before rolling to add a bonus effect to your attack: blinding, disarming, shoving, etc. Anybody could try these maneuvers, but spending a Deed point allows you to do so without a disadvantage die or foregoing your damage.
- Alternatively, you can spend two Deed points to get a bonus attack.
- Deed points recharge when you can catch your breath.
Nicolas Francart Neat. Doesn’t seem overpowered.
ReplyDeleteI like the versatility, Nicolas Francart. Only thing is, the bonus effect takes away some of the appeal of the Specialist Training. I usually tell people who want to do trick shots or special moves to take them as specialist's abilities.
ReplyDeleteThat said, limiting the bonus attacks by giving them a cooldown time is a good idea!
Eric Nieudan Good point, I thought about it but wondered if Specialist abilities could still retain a distinct feeling. The way I see it, taking a specialist ability means establishing that you have a very particular signature move, and using it is very meaningful (advantage/double damage). These little Deeds are meant to cover a broad range of tricks rather than a specific technique, and I saw them as something you can use much more often but with a more limited effect.
ReplyDeleteOh well, as always the only way to judge is to bring it to the table I suppose, but I had fun playing around with rules :)
Nicolas Francart For sure! I wasn't saying your rules wouldn't work. As long as you have a distinction between specialist's abilities and fighter's deeds and everyone understands it, you're good :)
ReplyDelete