Because youser opinions matter to me.
Originally shared by Eric Nieudan
Movement rates, we kind of need them
Since January, I've run para-OD&D twice a week with pared down rules to make it accessible to non-gamers. One of the things I left out is movement. But now and again, the question arises: a chase, an attempt at running away, you know how it works.
When that happens I look at my trusty B/X Monster Reference booklet and compare movement rates between the critter in question and one of the Men entries (cause I can never remember what a normal person's movement is). I just need to know if a monster is faster or slower than an adventurer.
So now I'm thinking about the stat blocks in Macchiato Monsters. I don't want to have to add the information to every monster if it's not relevant. So a mention in the description should suffice: different movements such as flies or burrows are in there already, so fast or slow or quick as lightning could certainly work.
Or would I be better served by a (short) list of tags? Are there any old school games that handle movement in a clever way?
(Previous post deleted because I had second thoughts about the pic I chose.)
I think about three speed descriptors would suffice (slow, human, fast).
ReplyDeleteOr you could have a descriptor and a usage die. So a cheetah would be Fastest On Land (d4) because it is ultra fast, but only in short bursts. A wolf would be Fast (d10), 'cos it can run for days and days, wearing down deer and horses. This would probably be too cumbersome for most games, I guess.
I have used "fast" and "slow" tags and found them fine for my purposes.
ReplyDeleteTore Nielsen Yeah, it's a good idea but I'd feel like characters would need a stamina dR as well... Which leads to more rolling... Which leads to the dark side.
ReplyDeleteI think slow or fast is sufficient. Missing either of those tags is average speed. Of course there's room for free form descriptors ("supernaturally quick")
ReplyDeleteStill, you could take a different tact and model chases and running via a usage die. The players actions (knocking over refuse, firing arrows behind them, etc) can provide advantages or disadvantages to the roll depending on if they want to flee or catch up. Say maybe it takes 3-5 rolls or something. /Shrug
I tend to use a manoeuvre die based on D&D movement rates when people try to do something tricky in combat (especially if it involves movement). For humanoids it's 3" (d4), 6" (d6), 9" (d8), 12" (d10), 15" (d12) [nb: Sword & Sorcery movement rates]. Trying to something tricky high roll gets it (sometimes there might be a threshold). You can add Dex bonus if a B/X fan.
ReplyDeleteFor quadrupeds/mounts divide movement by 2 before calculating, For winged flyers divide by 4. The main use for this is people trying to dodge behind trees or dive out of the way of attacks/charges/swoops. In a straight chase quadrupeds beat humans,and flyers beat both.
When used in a chase I assumes that people can use their environment to their advantage in a chase or race, rather than just running it. So it means being able to move through a crowded bazaar, through a wood, etc, where you have obstacles to get around (which makes movement variable).
Don't know if this will help though (but it means you can just list a die).
Aaron Griffin Unofficial tags is where I'm leaning at the moment, but the idea of an Endurance dR for chases and exploration alike is growing on me. I may even have drafter a table already...
ReplyDeleteIan Borchardt Sounds like an interesting mechanic. How do you roll the manoeuvre die?
Eric Nieudan: Straight contest. High value wins. Especially useful if someone is trying to disengage or dodge around someone. There might be a threshold (usually 4 or better) to do something like leap over a table or something but usually it's a direct contest with someone else for tactical positioning.
ReplyDeleteI do use it as a dodge mechanic too (but it consumes your entire action as you dive out of the way of the attack). But useful when infantry are fighting cavalry or swooping rocs).
In a chase it allows someone to open or close the range for example. It's all pretty hand-wavey based on the situation, but my players never seem to mind. [I suppose if I was formally to do it it would allow the person to change range bands - Engaged -> Melee -> Close -> Short -> Long -> Extreme -> Visual -> Gone (although these range categories depend on terrain and environment so in undergrowth you may quickly lose sight of someone but still hear them, for example).
I'm a firm believer that someone in a rout is generally faster than a pursuer (which is why you need cavalry to run down a routing foe), so the person that starts running has the advantage in being able to open the range initially and the pursuer must than attempt to catch up. However this disadvantage is that if the pursuer does catch up then they get a free hack from behind.
I have allowed rerolls if the chased person tosses away their shield and/or weapon.
I for one love contests between usage dice and have used it to model mass combat before.
ReplyDeleteIt allows for dual resolution of fatigue or loss as well as success or failure in the contest.
In a chase, it models staying power as well as the space between parties. In a battle, it models losses in numbers as well as giving or taking ground. It's fun
Ian Borchardt I'm taking notes =) Thanks for taking the time to explain your system in detail. Independently of my quandary with movement, it's a great idea for a no-skills, no-roll-under-stats D&D game!
ReplyDeleteAaron Griffin 100% agree with you. dRs work great for mass combat, and I'll definitely look into it for chases and endurance as well.
The highest [lowest] the AC, the faster the monster.
ReplyDeletesee what I did there
Paolo Greco You did a Nicolas Dessaux =)
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, monster armour is very handwavey in MM. I factor it into the HD, and I don't tell you if it's there or not.
Haven't used it yet, but this has always struck me as fun for chase mechanics: tenfootpolemic.blogspot.com - FLEE!!! Snakes & Ladders chase mechanics
ReplyDeleteEric Nieudan in MM, I'd tag the monsters. also maybe if a monster is tagged as "heavy amoured", any weapon but crossbows and polearms has disadvantage?
ReplyDeletePaolo Greco it's an interesting idea, but I think I'd keep it for exceptionally well armoured monsters. Otherwise players are going to ask for the same treatment when wearing heavy armour :)
ReplyDeleteoh, yeah, it would be for things like tanks, giant robots, and iron dragons. It would also have disadvantage in pursuit, of course.
ReplyDeleteI like the way it's handled in World of Dungeons: Your speed (both movement speed and initiative) depends on how much stuff you carry, on a 5 point scale from very fast to very slow (e.g. if you're running around naked you're "very fast"; if you're dragging a treasure chest while wearing full plate you're "very slow"). All you need is a one word speed descriptor for monsters. If your goblin is "fast", he'll go before (and run faster than) the average armored adventurer but go after the nimble, too-cool-to-wear-armor rogue.
ReplyDeleteNicolas Francart I didn't remember this from WoD. Thanks for the reminder!
ReplyDeleteEric Nieudan Just double checked: WoD has speed depending on the armor you wear. Breakers, the modern WoD hack, has speed depending on how much load you carry.
ReplyDeleteIn my MM hack I use a TEMPO die for initiative, stamina, and chases. Encumbrance reduces the starting die, injuries and drugs can affect dice size. Resting and eating resets it. Chases are just straight highest roll on TEMPO [group check using lowest dice unless they split up] need X number of success based on the determination of your opponents.
ReplyDeleteTEMPO is also used to track exhaustion Ala the overloaded hazard system by Brendon S./necropraxis.
Alternately, check out the zine broken system #ooo, monsters are given speed tags like "pregnant dog"
ReplyDelete